[sic]

about uniforms, dress codes, satisfiers, dissatisfiers, etc.

2008-09-16T15:41:00.000+08:00

5:33 PM LAIN: yo
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: dude
5:34 PM medyo polo kaya tayo sa sat :)
LAIN: I'm trying to write an email about my proposed salary scale and rankings... commentan mo pag na-email ko... gawa ka outline ng bases to cover sa interview nila?
5:35 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: I think I should be able to. PHP MySQL developers right?
LAIN: yoko... para naman tayong di programmer nyan... dilbert principle pa rin... there has never been a study that has shown dressing better improves productivity... you should buy that book...
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: yup, but it can make us look more professional :)
LAIN: yup... commentan, dagdagan ko naman...
5:36 PM And what value is that? We'd be as professional even if we were wearing casual clothes
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: ay pano, so wait ko yung email mo then I have to give comments na?
5:37 PM I don't know. It depends on what everyone wants to decide should be the culture we want to build.
5:38 PM LAIN: di naman, kahit bukas comments... ginaganahan ko gawin salary scale and ranks e baka gusto mo naman gawin bases to cover for our interview
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: I'd rather go for the part that gives attention to such details as dress-code, etc...
LAIN: the culture I want is one of substance, not one that is superficial... looks professional nga, pero looks lang...
5:39 PM that's a one-off activity... attention to dress code... gusto mo ba pinoproblema ng programmers natin damit, kesa program nila?
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: it might not be possible to directly correlate corporate/professional dressing etc... but you'd generally see na it can impress clients with the level of discipline we have
5:40 PM LAIN: superficial pa rin... as a rule programmers never need to dress up... not relevant to their task
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: we have to raise that to everyone. :) the best culture is one of substance and at the same time a certain level of "sophistication" and elegance designed to make a good impression.
small details that count :)
IMHO
5:41 PM LAIN: small details that matter, not details that are superficial... Lyceum requires their teachers uniform, La Salle and UP doesn't... it doesn't really make a difference
5:42 PM if they want to dress up, sila, pero di dapat required kasi it has no real merit, none that has substance
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: again, IMHO, they are small details that can matter.... it may not be directly related to productivity, but it can have an impact to marketing... what if people wish to make site visits...
LAIN: ano ba yung IMHO?
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: in my humble opinion...
5:43 PM LAIN: if I was a client, I would think superficial yung approach...
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: if you were the client... some clients may not see it the same way as you though.... raise to the council :)
5:45 PM and besides, UP and La salle are totally different cases altogether... even google and microsoft, etc...
LAIN: if you want, I will conduct an actual survey... you just believe uniform will create a good impression for marketing, but there is absolutely no proof for that... why waste people's time for something that is not proven... bibigyan mo ba sila ng pang-clothing allowance?
5:46 PM the bottomeline is that belief has no proof and will just bother people... even silicon valley dresses down!
5:48 PM what would you tell an excellent programmer natin na gustong umalis dahil sa lilipatan nya same salary, perhaps bigger, pero dun kasi di sya required ng uniform?
5:50 PM remember we're not the highest paying job around... let them concentrate on what's important, benefit na yung wear anything you want
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: I'd still go with at least minimum prescribed attire... for example business casual
LAIN: what is business casual?
5:51 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: collared shirt/polo for men no jeans... no rubber shoes
for women same din, di dapat sleeveless then not sandals
5:52 PM LAIN: I think they should be allowed to wear any of those... no real reason why they shouldn't... mas modern nga kung ganun suot nila
5:54 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: let's just raise sa council. dress code up to that level is not too bad.
LAIN: I think its still a bother... I went through that, and I hated it, and I left the moment I got a better offer
5:55 PM bumili pa ko damit kahit wala na ko pera... hassle
wala naman real benefit
5:56 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: it's about the culture we want to build, what people we want to groom them into... eventually hi-caliber people who can make technical presentations to clients and exhude a professional atmosphere, from attitude to details such as clothing.
5:58 PM LAIN: I disagree... professional atmosphere has nothing to do with clothing... it about professional people and professional dealing, not what people wear... people can wear the best clothes and still be unprofessional... if you want to be modern, programmers shoould be allowed to wear anything they want
5:59 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: its a plus to be both truly professional in dealings and dress professionally as well
6:00 PM again, a question of what culture we wish to build. can't be decided by just you and me.
LAIN: I disagree. There is only a plus with superficial clients, not for deep ones... but it may be a minus for a programmer, and one reason for them to leave... I want to remove all unnecssary dissatisfiers from programmer
6:01 PM simple question: ano sasabihin mo sa excellent programmer natin na aalis for another company with same of better salary dahil dun walang uniform?
6:02 PM Baka ikaw kasi you like wearing fancy clothes... hindi lahat ng tao ganun... a person who wants to wear fancy clothes will wear them even if there is directive
*there is no directive
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: if he is excellent, and he deserves it, then make a counter offer. I don't think business casual is too much to ask
6:03 PM LAIN: for all my college life I did not even have leather shoes... baka dalawa lang may collar ko... kung applicant nyo ko, you would have lost me
6:04 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: I don't necessary like fancy clothes, my clothes aren't necessarily expensive. but I do wish to dress appropriately based on the context (office work, office attire).
6:05 PM LAIN: sa tingin mo ba kaya nating pantayan financial and other benefits na kayang i-offer ng other companies? I don't think its feasible for us... the least we can do for them is make them happy and remove dissatisfiers from them
that is your belief, that those are the clothes in proper context... no real proof that says ganun talaga dapat
6:08 PM if I would ask you to read stuff to understand, would you? If you would, just read these, to start: The Dilbert Principle, The Little Prince, Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and The Two-Factor Theory
6:13 PM I do not believe money will motivate programmers enough. Give them a personally satisfying job. That will make them stay. If they were in it for the money, we CANNOT compete
6:15 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: so, basically what you are saying are people who do not agree nor are aware with the the "principles" in those writings you mentioned (let's limit it only to the point we are discussing now) are people who lack understanding and are people who cannot think intellectually? then let all successful people in successful firms like [large I.T. company] who were able to hire and retain good quality people, but at at the same time embraced this culture (on this partical "small" aspect we are arguing about) be called people who lack sense
LAIN: I suppose you're familiar with maslow's hierarchy of needs... at least read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Herzberg
6:16 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: and is there really a proof that majority of developers have that anti-preference to "dress-codes"
LAIN: why do people stay in [large I.T. company]? kaya ba nating ibigay ang mga yon?
even if they have no anti-prefence, magsusuot pa rin sila ng fancy... pero bakit mo isusubject ang may antipreference?
6:17 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: [large I.T. company] is not necessarily the highest paying firm. but there are other aspects that the firm is good, which makes people want to stay or at least get on board
6:18 PM LAIN: its not just the money, pero marami pa nga iba... can we give those? when we can, we can impose more stuff, habang hindi, give them the little stuff
I suppose you're familiar with maslow's hierarchy of needs... at least read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Herzberg
6:19 PM It's not Gospel truth, but you can agree... the way to motivate excellent programmers to stay with us is with stuff we can compete with, so let's compete... impressed nga ilan clients, naglipatan naman excellent programmers...
6:20 PM sabi ko sa yo, concern ko programmers... si [some guy] ang may concern sa clients
6:21 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: again, is it really that a big deal that majority of developers will move on to different work simply on the lack/basis of dress codes
LAIN: not majority, the excellent ones
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: all, in one way or the other should have a concern about the clients
6:22 PM always the case?
LAIN: would you kneel down and worship a client if he told you so?
6:23 PM no, but for those that are? are you saying its ok to lose a few excellent programmers? I think we should never give a reason for programmers to leave kung policies lang problema nila
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: that question doesn't make sense. will the client ask you to kneel down and worship him... his interest is that you can have a good relationship with him, gain his trust, and deliver what you promised for his money's worth
6:25 PM LAIN: if we tell the client that it's more modern to dress as you are, would he argue? What if baligtad, ang sabihin ng client ay yung sinasabi ko? The point is di naman iisa opinion din ng clients... some may have my opinion too... so di reasonable yung belief na yon... mas reasonable yung suggestion ko to remove possible dissatisfiers from our most important employees
6:26 PM Question: may matutuwa bang programmer pag sinabi mong may dress code sila?
It is not a satisfier, it is a dissatisfier
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: my hunch... I'd say only the extremest/most excellent/eccentric would probably have such disdain. in the first place I don't think we can yet afford such a guy. in the time that we can, then there's enough basis for him to put up with it.
6:27 PM LAIN: don't impose unnecessary rules na mahihirapan lang sila
6:28 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: but is it really that much of a hassle? is it really that much of a counter-motivator?
6:30 PM LAIN: out of [number of] applicants, how many would you think a dress code would be unnappealing? Just because they'll do it when you order them to, doesn't ean they like it, and unhappy employees won't have personal compassion for the company
6:31 PM and will most likely leave given another offer... a happy employee will stay at a lower paying job if they are content with it
6:32 PM if they are happy with it... but why would an employee stay at a company he or she is not completely happy with? Dressing is something you do everyday
6:34 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: again, what I'd like to challenge is, is it really that bad to have a dress-code (or even just a similitude to one, provisioning for "compromise") that people move in or out of a job simply based on that variable?
6:36 PM LAIN: one variable? you are assuming yun lang ang magiging dissatisfier sa atin... maraming ibang dissatisfiers beyond our control... let's at least control those that we can... now its dress code... what next? bawal mag-e-mail on the job?
6:37 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: I'd say focus on the top/primary satisfiers that is feasible to offer... focus on the top/primary dissatisfiers and get it out of the way... will dress code be on top on the dissatisfier list?
LAIN: sige nga, what dissatisfiers would you eliminate?
6:38 PM we agreed on the flexi time with core hours, effectively ridding one dissatisifer
besides, its not about which dissatisfier is on the top of the list, why not eliminate all that we can eliminate?
6:39 PM One of OUR biggest problems should be controlling programmer turnover... THAT will be a bigger problem!
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: primary... ineffective promotion/rewards and performance evaluation scheme and implementation... lack of direction/career path (does he/she have a future when he sticks with us)... inconsistencies in management (ineffective organization and leadership)...
6:40 PM lack of growth and personal development...
poor culture/corporate atmosphere
lack of trust and good working relationship with co-workers
6:41 PM LAIN: to be honest, can we truly eliminate those really? in reality, kahit anong ingat, us as management will still make mistakes... pero yung no dress code malinaw na absolute riddance of a dissatisfier... remember: quantifiable benefits
6:42 PM I don't think we can even eliminate some of those you mentioned... you mention career path... kung sobrang attractive ng career path, bakit di pa tyo nagreresign?
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: because for the sake of order, we must keep some for our selves... allow them to use computer/network resources any way they want because barring it all is a dissatisfier? I say it should be balanced... and it would generally tip already to their favor... is that too big to ask
6:43 PM we are way ahead of them... we're talking about people just starting out in IT...
6:44 PM LAIN: because barring it all is not possible. we give them the possible, don't promise the impossible. we must be realistic, not idealistic. You're thinking of the [number] right now, how about more experienced programmers? di ba tayo maghihire ng ganun?
labo naman kung may dresscode sila ngayon, tapos later wala yung iba
6:48 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: yes, even for bigger companies it is hard to bar all, but you none the less try to move in the direction to improve them
6:50 PM but that's why they ar e the ones who need primary focus... even those who spend sums of money to hire consultants just to improve those aspects of the firm still can't perfect it.
LAIN: yes, for example, bawal games and friendster are specific enough. Kung gusto mo youtube. Pero di mo mababawal email kasi minsan kelangan sa work yon, and di natin malalaman kung tama pa gamit nila email... minsan, ok lang naman a little personal email sa office, basta they meet their deadlines with quality
6:51 PM which one are you talking about now?
you improve everything, but do not rely on a promise of something that is idealistic, not realistic.
6:52 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: huh? still the same items... pseudo-dress code as suspect lesser dissatisfier and other weightier satisfiers that deserve higher priority and attention
6:55 PM what did I say is idealistic? which point did I raise was not realistic? about the only thing I remember saying is that these are the main things and they deserver higher priority and more attention. did I say we can perfect them? no, otherwise I would have contradicted what I have noted that even bigger firms can fail on that aspect. but if we don't give them higher focus, we're more likely not to hit closer to the mark.
6:57 PM LAIN: so what benefit do you communicate to the programmers? na dito consistent ang managment? na dito fair ang management? these are not quantifiable and madali nating ma-contradict sarili natin pagpumalpak tayo which might happen... pero sabihin mong walang uniform, definite and exact yon
6:58 PM we will work on all those, pero what will give programmers na definite, exact and quantifiable
6:59 PM - flexi time with core hours
- fast promotion to those deserving ( we can explain the system once we finalized )
- no uniform
7:00 PM actually we don't even need to say no uniform, we just don't say na meron dress code
7:01 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: you don't communicate consistency in management... they will see what we truly are whether we say one thing or another. however, we plan and communicate with one another to avoid such a pitfall... even before a small item escalates to a nightmare
7:03 PM it's not as easy to quantify everything... sometimes those that can't be quantified are the things that can matter most (i.e. company culture, adherance to ethics and company values, value for individual and concern for his welfare not just profit)
7:04 PM okies, during training, no dress code (which is before mag-end of month). that should give us enough time so that the whole council could decide
7:05 PM LAIN: ok. I really should conduct a study that determines the opinion of clients as to how much it affects their opinion... then again studies are just excellent estimates, but are estimates nonetheless
7:06 PM Are you making the bases to be covered... I'll be finishing the salary scale, ranking and promotion and will email... comment agad through here when I finish
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: no, not yet
7:07 PM LAIN: till what time ka ba dyan?
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: aalis na ako maya-maya. I can just read your email tomorrow.
LAIN: you can do bases tomorrow din... I'll try to make a few when I have time... pero will finish salary scale soon
7:08 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: okies
7:09 PM dude, how challenging is the ladder? how long/how many years will it take them to get to the top? give it too easy and it might not be as enticing...
7:11 PM LAIN: it won't be... but it's not time based, but regular performance based... eventually, what I see is they will quickly rise to their deserved salary scale, and will get stuck there for a long time... but will eventually get promoted again, after several months I guess... edit / comment mo na lang...
7:15 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: okidoks
LAIN: this conversation is too interesting. I want to post it in [sic]
7:16 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: he he :) nice chat.
LAIN: very informative
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: gusto mo ipabasa nila sa kanila eh. less trouble discussing points... i think the primary are all here.
then they make their opinion. I go for kung ano man maagreehan ng lahat
7:17 PM LAIN: maraming mapupulot siguro readers... yes, its saved in my gmail... pwede pabasa na lang natin sa board
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: (even if it's against mine :))
how long was that, like almost two hours... he he
7:18 PM LAIN: although wag dapat ganun... remember my suggestion? anyone can counter an opinion, and the counter must be addressed and it must be proven which is best... di naman porke majority thinks its right, it already is... I think that is the best way...
it was just one hour, a little over, I think

10 minutes
7:28 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: yup. but this one is a little bit tricky. it has something to do also with the culture and/or image we want to build. anyways, bahala na, we can just come up with criteria/pros-cons during deliberation.
7:30 PM LAIN: yes, deliberate na lang uli after ipabasa sa kanila
7:31 PM [ALAIN'S FRIEND]: ey dude, I'd going out in a few
tom na lang lit
7:32 PM LAIN: ok, check na lang your mail tomorrow and chat or email before 1pm sana
830 sat mrt ayala tayo kita?
will you have a cel?
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: yup. I believe I will
have a mobile
7:33 PM LAIN: ok. try ko tapusin akin, email ko later if I do... wanna go home na din
[ALAIN'S FRIEND]: yup, ey dude, gtg na :) chat tom
7:34 PM LAIN: ok, bye God bless

about rumors, spreading rumors, believing rumors, destroying lives, etc.

2005-10-11T20:02:00.000+08:00

[Alain's friend]: hey bro
[Alain's friend]: lunchbreak lang ako login yahoo...
[Alain's friend]: mayamaya out na ko.
Lain: hey, remember that thing that was taught at [name of group]?
[Alain's friend]: hope to catch you online..
Lain: about not using proctor and gamble products cause they supported Satan?
[Alain's friend]: huh? alin? dami yun eh
Lain: about not using proctor and gamble products cause they supported Satan?
Lain: you there?
[Alain's friend]: yup
Lain: remember?
[Alain's friend]: what about?
Lain: wag na daw tayo bumili ng Proctor and Gamble products
[Alain's friend]: yes. mejo pa.
Lain: remember my stand?
[Alain's friend]: ano nga ba?
[Alain's friend]:
Lain: I was the only one saying di ako susunod dyan dahil unfair sa Proctor and Gamble, cause walang proof?
Lain: as good as rumor lang
[Alain's friend]: di ba colgate P&G?
[Alain's friend]: so don't care ang stand mo
Lain: not sure... Safeguard yata, and Gard, I think
[Alain's friend]: so rumor lang pala talaga
Lain: not don't care, show me proof bago siraan ang isang tinatatangkilik ko
[Alain's friend]: yup. sorry i sit corrected
Lain: well, hoax lang pala talaga!
[Alain's friend]: how did u know?
Lain: http://hoaxbusters.ciac.org/HBUrbanMyths.shtml#procter
[Alain's friend]: kwawa naman p&g kung hoax lang pala talaga yon
[Alain's friend]: ei, di tayo jagkita nung sun
Lain: that's my point! napakaunfair nung nangyari para sa kanila! nawalan sila ng customers for a rumor!
[Alain's friend]: sa loob kasi ako nghihintay... i didn't bother to check on the stairs... dun lang ako area lobby
Lain: and Christians believed in this! And Christians preached this! They believed and preached an unfounded and unproven rumor!
Lain: ok na yon, can't let go of this e
Lain: can you believe that?!
[Alain's friend]: i heard it happen... well, gotta be carefull when you're wielding such power and influence... the pulpit, the anointing, the authority...
Lain: pero grabe yung mga nagpreach o nagbigay ng directive, and grabe din yung mga naniwala!
[Alain's friend]: oo nga... what they heard at the pulpit, they take as truth, without question... else criticality against leadership ka.. hmmmm very dangerous talaga...
Lain: ang sinasabi ko nuon, pano pag may Christians pala sa Proctor and Gamble, tapos Satanists pala nagkalat ng rumor para masira sila, tapos eto mga kristyano, paniwala agad, porke nasabing nabanggit daw sa Oprah, etc, e ni hindi naman nila napanood themselves, since di naman nag-eexist yung episode!
Lain: naniwala pa sila kay Satan nuon!
[Alain's friend]:
Lain: can you imagine the other rumors that are carelessly preached as facts and those which carelessly believe in them
Lain: DISGUSTING!
[Alain's friend]: yup. i hear ya.
[Alain's friend]: eh pano kung si ex-church mate eh pinreach na heretic, and naniwala naman agad ang congregation...
Lain: that's my point!
[Alain's friend]: wawa si ex-church mate if it's not true
Lain: my goodness! so much faith in rumors! ano na nangyari sa Christianity that believes in only what the Bible says!
[Alain's friend]: remember the berreans! (tama ba?)
Lain: Yup, Bereans!
Lain: kaya nga ko umalis sa Catholicism, gusto ko Bible lang, no traditions. Apparently, some brands of "Christianity" believe in the Bible plus unfounded rumors
[Alain's friend]: for some churches, bereans are banned. di mo dapat kinequestion authority pastor mo, critical ka or rebellious brand mo.
Lain: papal infalliability?
Lain: hehe
[Alain's friend]: he he
[Alain's friend]: catholicism in the earliest stages of evolution pala ang madaming churches kung ganon...
[Alain's friend]: if that would be the case, no wonder why some churches never really grow to be that big, influential and powerful
[Alain's friend]: madami sila masisira life... so they have to be contained. but counter wrong 'traditions' and God will perhaps multiply them
Lain: yes! in the proctor and gamble case, nasira and proctor and gamble for a rumor that may have been started by Satanists themselves
Lain: If so, these Satanists may be laughing themselves silly at how they were able to make Christians believe in another of their lies, and ruin a good name in the process!
[Alain's friend]: some Christians then are so productive and useful - they'd get themselves to be instruments of God at times. at times, they also get themselves to be instruments of the devil unwittingly..
[Alain's friend]: saw it happen, yes I did... it's silly
[Alain's friend]: it's because of pride
[Alain's friend]: it's because of abuse of authority
Lain: not willing to admit that some of what they're saying is inaccurate or unfounded
[Alain's friend]: drunk in the anointing God has given, they believed they never ever could make a mistake, that they're always right
Lain: and lives are ruined because of it
[Alain's friend]: yes, that's how they get themselves to be also instruments of the Devil
[Alain's friend]: they may be the elect - but they can also get to be deceived...
[Alain's friend]: deceived by thheir own pride...
Lain: and they may not even realize it or they are too proud to admit it
Lain: and those that are victims of the rumors become casualties
[Alain's friend]: survey says its the latter.. he he
[Alain's friend]: wawa naman yung mga casualties.. inaapi na ng world inaapi pa ng church.
[Alain's friend]: they'd be very good if they'd still stick to God despite of all that...
Lain: but when I think about it, they are the true casualties, the ones that preach and the ones that believe the rumors, because they are the ones deceived by the devil, and they are the ones who have judged unfairly, and that may be worse than becoming victims of rumors
[Alain's friend]: good point.
[Alain's friend]: they have no idea what's happening. thinking they're serving God, they're advancing the purpose of the devil - steal, kill and to destroy.... yes things were stolen from me, i almost got killed spiritually, definitely have gotten destroyed I had to rebuild almost everything...
[Alain's friend]: unwittingly perhaps.. but still
Lain: I know the feeling. Been there, done that
Lain: wait may call ako
Lain: ok na
Lain: haha! may spoof pa pala nung sa proctor and gamble hoax
Lain: http://hoaxbusters.ciac.org/HBUrbanMyths.shtml#universal
Lain: a lot classic hoaxes
[Alain's friend]: pansin ko nga, di ko lang binasa na iba...
[Alain's friend]: lam mo parang madali lang pala tong work ko... ewan ko lang...
Lain: pero ganun pala ka-known na hoax lang yung sa proctor and gamble
Lain: I saw it, why couldn't they?
Lain: Ganun din yung rumors about ahem... kita naman, pero di makita
Lain: Gotta go yata muna, I have visitors
[Alain's friend]: okidoki.. sige... maya-maya logout na ako, after lunch break..

Postscript:
After checking after the conversation, some of the products mentioned (Gard and Colgate), aren't actually from Proctor and Gamble. I didn't edit the conversation anyway to preserve it, and I just send my apologies and corrections now as a postscript. We are not beyond admitting that at the time of the conversation, we were wrong.

about future-marriage male-female relationships, etc.

2005-08-24T22:46:00.004+08:00

Lain: yo!
[Alain's friend]: ey bro. musta class? don ba yung cute na kwento mo? send mo naman pic =)
Lain: yup. wala ko pic e
[Alain's friend]: hingi ka, scan mo. he he
Lain: ngaa. wag na
[Alain's friend]: kaya mo yan, don't be shy... fate is building a bridge of opportunity for the one we love... naks
Lain: says who
[Alain's friend]: sabi nung mama sa pelikula. di ko nakuha name eh, sorry. he he
Lain: di totoo yun
[Alain's friend]: up to a certain degree, totoo sya. =)
Lain: hindi ah
[Alain's friend]: totoo.
Lain: hindi ah
Lain: hindi ah
[Alain's friend]: parang yung saying na he who fails to plan, plans to fail... parang... great opportunities don't always fall on our lap. pag minsan lalapit lang sya, close enough for us to attempt to grab. but if we let that chance pass by, we may have lost the opportunity forever
Lain: naks
[Alain's friend]: quotable na ba? by [Alain's friend] copyright [year kept secret]
[Alain's friend]:
Lain: pero hindi close enough to grab e... pwede lang i-grab ng sapilitan
[Alain's friend]: ikaw. kng san ka masaya. =)
Lain: blog ka tungkol dyan
[Alain's friend]: i really think there's nothing wrong if we make a move. we're wise enough naman to know when n when not to
[Alain's friend]: di ba?
Lain: yes, kaya nga we don't kasi nga "we're wise enough naman to know when n WHEN NOT TO"
[Alain's friend]: saka baka magkaroon ng deadlock. attitude kasi ng females is to be passive, demure effect, kahit gusto2. kasi they are hoping that the guy will make a move. up paramdam lang sila. if we don't respond definitively, she'll think we're not interested, kahit mahurt sya.
Lain: totoo ba yan
Lain: pabasa ko kaya sa katabi ko yung pinag-uusapan natin, ok lang?
[Alain's friend]: sige ikaw, pabasa mo. bahala ka. =)
[Alain's friend]: ba't tagalmo reply
[Alain's friend]: ...
BUZZ!!!
Lain: ha? ako? ikaw nga kanina ko pa hinihintay e
Lain: naputol yata internet namin, di kasi ko nagiinternet e
[Alain's friend]: naputol din ata amin. kasi pansin ko bigla nagpop up lahat messages
BUZZ!!!
Lain: baka pareho tayo
[Alain's friend]: what do you think don sabi ko. agree ka na? =)
Lain: not sure. kaya nga I wanted to get a second opinion. Babae katabi ko e
[Alain's friend]: sige, what say nya? reasonable ba ang aking hypothesis? yung ang aking conjecture, hanggang conjecture lang kasi di naman ako babae at di naman ako gay. he he =)
Lain: the gist of it is: you still need signals from the girl, any kind of signal, even if if its subtle, but if there seems to be no signal, then no go
Lain: what do you think?
[Alain's friend]: yon sabi ng girl? seems fair enough... =)
Lain: yeah sabi nya, conclusion ko din
[Alain's friend]: parang ganon din naman ang sabi ko ah... the sum total of it all... =)
Lain: hindi ah, sa yo kahit wala signal, go pa din, wag lang masayang opportunity
[Alain's friend]: di ah. sabi ko opportunity, lalapit close enough for us to lay hold of.. yun yon, kaw naman oh. =)
Lain: even if you get close enough, pag wala pa signal, no go pa rin
[Alain's friend]: yun nga yong close enough eh, yung pag may signal. that was what I had in mind when i wrote it. kaya nga close enough eh. di ba =)
[Alain's friend]: basta, kung ala signal, di close enough yon. kung may signal mejo lapit lapit na yon. kung nanliligaw na yung girl, yun yung nagfall sa iyong lap (depends still if you wanna catch ). clear? =)
[Alain's friend]: basta, parang ganon ang nasa isip ko nina
Lain: ah, if that's what you mean by close enough, e di go. pwede naman kasi maging close na wala pa din signal e
[Alain's friend]: hmmm... as in close friends? pede nga. pero friends lang, until someone starts to give signals. then either pede di na friends... sila na or masira yung friendship. or pede friends pa din.
Lain: yeah, ok sa kin yon
[Alain's friend]: so it's like some process of escalation. at first maybe the male could give slight hints of deep interest with the girl. the girl responds back also with hints. if the male perceives that as a go signal, he makes more definite moves. ideally the process would go to a level where both will be able to get to know each other deeper and if all turns out right, it will end with a meaningful relationship
[Alain's friend]: in summary, males responsibility is to make the definite moves. females to give hints. coz in the first place male cannot make moves without perceptible signals from the female. otherwise, it maybe too awkward for the male
Lain: iba yung maybe sa may be
[Alain's friend]: saan?
Lain: pero I dont think its necessary for males to give deinite moves while there are no signals, so in part, the signal giving of interest is mutual
Lain: "it maybe too awkward for the male"
[Alain's friend]: both have an equal role to play to establish the relationship. no overemphasis on the side of male to initiate. and on the female to just expect.
[Alain's friend]: so thats it? =)
Lain: yes, that's my point. "no overemphasis on the side of male to initiate."
[Alain's friend]: nasave mo ba? gawa tayo blog =)
[Alain's friend]: equal responsibility. =)
Lain: gusto mo? save natin, tapos post natin
Lain: yep, equal responsibility
[Alain's friend]: di ko nasave lahat eh. open pa lahat sa yo?
Lain: yep. sige save ko
Lain: gawan natin blog?
[Alain's friend]: either gawin natin blog or ipost natin conversation (with cuts of course) =)
[Alain's friend]: sige. cool =)
[Alain's friend]: taglish pala.. i-process pa natin para mas ganda =)
Lain: which do you prefer? post sa blog mo o gawan natin bago where we can post other of our conversations later
Lain: kahit provide-an lang natin translation
[Alain's friend]: lagyan natin ng drama, setting, imagery, para kakaiba effect... artistic.. =)
Lain: ngek, too much naman yon
[Alain's friend]: too much nga ata.. he he
[Alain's friend]: sige kahit translation lang muna.. pede ma-evolve later on. pedeng tig-isa tayo post in each of our blog. tapos link na lang sites natin =)
Lain: as is na, cut yung irrelevant parts, may translation yung tagalog
[Alain's friend]: yung conversations din natin about reeds!!! =) may copy ka pa?
[Alain's friend]: sige, translate na lang. send mo akin copy. file =)
[Alain's friend]: grabe.. siguro next tym pag nagcoconverse tayo sa alabang or elsewhere, meron tayong recorder. ganda din iba discussions natin pag minsan di ba? =)
Lain: meron ba tayo natin? oral naman yun e
[Alain's friend]: wag na yon. hirap pala yon
Lain: gawan ba natin bago blog ito? link-an na lang natin
[Alain's friend]: pede din =) sige.
Lain: what you wanna name it?
[Alain's friend]: Over a cup of coffee... ??
[Alain's friend]: k lang ba? coffee-cup discussions...
[Alain's friend]: pero di naman tayo nagkakape pag nag-kukuwentuhan eh...
[Alain's friend]: but it gives an imagery
[Alain's friend]: coffe-cup conversations... hmmm seems to sound nice...
Lain: how about Yahoo Messenger Conversations by Two
Lain: Two what?
[Alain's friend]: handsome and intelligent dudes.. haw haw haw! =)
Lain: baka wala na magbasa nung blog
[Alain's friend]: The Yahoo Messenger Chronicles...
[Alain's friend]: masyadong general.. baka isipin nila kaninong YM? he he
Lain: dapat may patungkol sa atin
Lain: wala pa ideas?
[Alain's friend]: ala pa. itulog ko muna, baka mapanaginipan ko . =)
Lain: Corny naman kung Yahoo Messnger Conversations by [Alain's friend's first name] and Alain
Lain: How about YM conversations by YM
[Alain's friend]: ey bro. tom na lang uwi. have to go home na... =) God bless!!! =)
Lain: ok. God bless
[Alain's friend] has signed out. ([month kept secret]/[day kept secret]/[year kept secret] 5:04 PM)

about marriage, divorce, remarriage, loneliness, etc.

2005-08-04T11:11:00.000+08:00

[Alain’s friend] appears to be offline
and will receive your messages after signing in.

[Alain’s friend]: yes
[Alain’s friend]: finishing this take home exam
[Alain’s friend]: it's justa lot
[Alain’s friend]: how are you...
Lain: now lang ko nakabalik La Salle
[Alain’s friend]: where were you?
Lain: ok lang, dami din ginagawa
Lain: home, doing a few stuff
[Alain’s friend]: I'm sleepy but won't sleep til i finish this
[Alain’s friend]: deadline tomorrow
[Alain’s friend]: final exams next week, kakapagod
[Alain’s friend]: have you read my offline messages
[Alain’s friend]: ?
Lain: ya, just read them
Lain: hard case yung kanya
[Alain’s friend]: he's a really good guy... nagkamali lang, salbahe asawa nya
[Alain’s friend]: naghahanap din sya, he wants to do God's will and been asking people
Lain: although I've answered your questions, I'
Lain: I'm not sure how I can answer his
[Alain’s friend]: pero kung iisipin anghirap ng lagay nya
[Alain’s friend]: kung di sya pwedeng mag asawa uli, mahirap yun, tapos di rin dapat mabuhay sa lust
[Alain’s friend]: I know it's really hard, it would be hard for me being a woman, and i can't imagine it for him being a man
Lain: Actually, although mas mahirap yung case nya, I can relate kasi I've been through similar experiences, as you may tell from my writings
[Alain’s friend]: no
Lain: does he know my site?
[Alain’s friend]: you didn't
[Alain’s friend]: he doesn't know your site
[Alain’s friend]: would you want me to tell him
[Alain’s friend]: ?
Lain: ok lang, we don't know each other
[Alain’s friend]: you were never married
Lain: and that would be why his case is more difficult
[Alain’s friend]: it's totally different, you can't comppare your experiences to his
[Alain’s friend]: and I'm him to be happy
[Alain’s friend]: i won't feel bad if he remarry
Lain: but you're not God
[Alain’s friend]: but God wants us to be happy too i think
Lain: Never to the point we disobey His words
[Alain’s friend]: and i think nabasa ko sa verses na binigay mo
[Alain’s friend]: may exception for infidelity
[Alain’s friend]: i don't know, but it's really hard... to be alone and resist lust
Lain: yung divorce yes, but not for remarriage
[Alain’s friend]: but he's great... he wants to do what is right
Lain: think of it this way, when his wife dies, he can still remarry
[Alain’s friend]: i know
[Alain’s friend]: pero kailngan pang maghintay na magkaganun
[Alain’s friend]: ?
Lain: yup
[Alain’s friend]: i can't see the point
[Alain’s friend]: anong reason ng Lord then?
Lain: it's to preserve the sanctity of marriage. It's either that or no sanctity at all. I prefer God's point of view
[Alain’s friend]: on things like this, like when I don't know what to do, i use my discenment, and when I see my churchmates here happily remaaried, i feel happy about them
[Alain’s friend]: of course we should prefer God's pt of view
[Alain’s friend]: medyo guilty din ako kasi dahil sa sinabi ko sakanya, isip sya ng isip, na hindi na nga pwedeng mag asawa at mag iisa na lang
[Alain’s friend]: kausap daw nya yung kaopisina nya, remarried, sabi nya mas mahirap kung mabubuhay sa lust
Lain: you only use discernment if there is no clear rule in the Bible; but as I showed you, the verses are direct, divorce may be allowed, but not remarriage while the partner is still aliove
Lain: one sin is no better than another
[Alain’s friend]: should i tell him these things?
[Alain’s friend]: lalo kolang sinasaktan yung tao
[Alain’s friend]: should I just stop talking to him, i guess that's mean
Lain: should you warn a person that the bridge is out even if it hurts his feelings? yes
Lain: there are more to this life than marriage, you can be unalone but unmarried
[Alain’s friend]: iba naman situation ito
[Alain’s friend]: pag sinabihan mo yung nasa bingit , na delikado, matutuwa yun
[Alain’s friend]: pero ito hindi matutuwa
[Alain’s friend]: pero dun sa article mo, iba sinabi mo
[Alain’s friend]: na it's hard ot be alone
Lain: that's what you think. nasa bingit din sya na magdesisyon ng mali na gugulo sa buong buhay nya
Lain: yup, it's hard to be alone, pero hindi naman marriage ang inoffer kung solution dun ha? remember?
[Alain’s friend]: and now you're saying it's ok to be alone
[Alain’s friend]: ano?
Lain: it's not ok to be alone, but marriage is not the only solution. Like I said earlier, being unmarried does not equate to beeing alone
[Alain’s friend]: then whu would you want to get a partner?
[Alain’s friend]: yourself?
Lain: ha?
[Alain’s friend]: gusto mo din mag asawa right?
Lain: ako oo
[Alain’s friend]: it's the same for him
[Alain’s friend]: ano yung sinabi mong solution sa article? i can't remeber
Lain: gusto ko magasawa pero di ko pa ginagawa kasi ayoko magkamali. nagakamali na sya so he blew his chance. if ganun ganun lang pala yun, lahat na tayo mag-asawa kasi ganun ganun lang naman pala yon. if you say marriage is the only solution to being alone, that would mean you can't have any other intimat friends except for yoir marrige partner
Lain: Hard to be Alone

Lain: Basahin mo para masaya
[Alain’s friend]: ok, intimate friends
[Alain’s friend]: i see your point
[Alain’s friend]: wala akong internet
[Alain’s friend]: can't open that link
[Alain’s friend]: send it to my email, i'll open it in school
[Alain’s friend]: naaawa lang talaga ko sa kanay
[Alain’s friend]: kanya
[Alain’s friend]: kung salbahe lang sya, ok lang hehe
Lain: pero that's bias naman
Lain: God sends rain to both the good and the bad
[Alain’s friend]: i told him i can be a good friend
Lain: And that is perhaps the best that you can offer him
[Alain’s friend]: but i told him to to date
[Alain’s friend]: ladies
[Alain’s friend]: and find a good one
Lain: if may internet ka sa school, open mo na lang dun, I forbid forwarding my article e, only the link may be forwarded. You can ask him to visit. I don't know if it will help, but I'm curious to find out if it will
[Alain’s friend]: but he said, he doesn't want to do that
[Alain’s friend]: yeah, forward the link
Lain: so sa akin yun din iaadvise mo pag lonley ako, magdate ng ladies and find a good one?
[Alain’s friend]: yeah, not bad, no problem sa yo, you're not divorced
Lain: it's like dating and marriage is a cure all for everything that ails, especially loneliness
[Alain’s friend]: mgaChristina na girls
[Alain’s friend]: Christian
[Alain’s friend]: no, that's not what I meant
Lain: no, that's wrong, marriage isn't something done to solve the problem of loneliness...
[Alain’s friend]: but meet people and make relationships
[Alain’s friend]: you don't do it to escape lonliness
[Alain’s friend]: it's not the reason to get married at all
[Alain’s friend]: but i say meet people and make friends
Lain: yes, meet people and make realtionships, but not necessarily date, and not necessarily from the other gender
[Alain’s friend]: that's not bad
[Alain’s friend]: yeah, that's what i meant
[Alain’s friend]: babae, lalake
Lain: yes, if that's the point of view, that's good. You just have to broaden your point of view and not limit the problem of loneliness to marriage
[Alain’s friend]: i never meant that
[Alain’s friend]: angkitid nun
[Alain’s friend]: but i don't think i willbe able to tall him these things directly
[Alain’s friend]: I'm scared to hurt him more
Lain: yeah, but it seemed that's what was making him sad. If being unable to marry causes so much grief in people, imagine others na di rin makahanap nang may magpapakasal sa kanila. Marriage is not the only solution to loneliness and neither is it the purpose of man on Earth. If Jesus and Paul can be happy without being married, so can we.
Lain: We just need to realize that truth, and maybe he does too
[Alain’s friend]: right...
[Alain’s friend]: i'm glad I'm not in love with him
[Alain’s friend]: it will be so hard
Lain: To a certain degree, mas maswerte sya sa iba kasi sya alam na nya how it is to be married, kahit salbahe asawa nya, there must have been at least a few good times. Some of us will never even be able to have that luxury of being happily married even for just a short time
[Alain’s friend]: but i would really want a man like him
Lain: you can try killing his wife
[Alain’s friend]: he was never happy
[Alain’s friend]: being married
[Alain’s friend]: hehe, kill his wife, lol
Lain: that can't be 100% truthful, because if he was never absolutely happy, why did he marry his wife willingly
Lain: absoultely never happy pala
[Alain’s friend]: he thought the girl liked him
Lain: that was his mistake
Lain: but even in his false belief, he must have had at least one happy time with the girl
[Alain’s friend]: i think so too
Lain: so he is more fortunate than a few people who would never be able to enjoy that happiness, na mamatay na di man lang kinasal kahit kelan
[Alain’s friend]: ok lang din yun
[Alain’s friend]: si Jesus at si paul
[Alain’s friend]: di ba?
Lain: Ya, so his problem is not the end of the world
[Alain’s friend]: k...
[Alain’s friend]: enough of him
[Alain’s friend]: thanks
[Alain’s friend]: mas madali pag kausap kita
Lain: thanks. it's good na may nagagawa pa ko mabuti
[Alain’s friend]: of course you do
[Alain’s friend]: with all those ar ticles you write and post, you're doing a lot of good things
[Alain’s friend]: ako ang walang nagagwa
[Alain’s friend]: puro school na lang ako
Lain: gumawa na nga tayo ng mabuti
[Alain’s friend]: yeah
[Alain’s friend]: i wanna serve God...
[Alain’s friend]: do moe for Him
[Alain’s friend]: more
[Alain’s friend]: pero pag nag PhD pa ko.... lalo ng mahirap
Lain: we should start na, dami natin nagagawa dati, balik natin
Lain: ako din pagnagPHD, pero kaya yan, di pwedeng hindi
[Alain’s friend]: yeah, when i change my situation here, I will
[Alain’s friend]: and may times nagkakasala pa ko
[Alain’s friend]: di na nga nagawa ng maganda, nagkakamali pa
Lain: parepareho naman tayo. magbago na lang at bumalik sa dati
[Alain’s friend]: yeah
[Alain’s friend]: kaya dapat ang partner, matatag na Christian din
Lain: oo nga. hirap makakita
[Alain’s friend]: mahirap nga
[Alain’s friend]: andami ko choices here, hehe
Lain: buti ka pa
[Alain’s friend]: pero lagin may major na hindi ko gusto
[Alain’s friend]: yun gusto ko, divorcee naman
Lain: ok lang yon, you can only marry one anyway
[Alain’s friend]: help me choose
[Alain’s friend]: hihi
Lain: pwede rin. meron na bang may sense iconsider?
[Alain’s friend]: oksi [Abcde]
[Alain’s friend]: unbeliver naman
[Alain’s friend]: eliminated
Lain: di pwede yon
[Alain’s friend]: meron Bible teacher, sobrang ok,
[Alain’s friend]: sobrang busy naman, wala ng time, laging nasa church
Lain: Ok pa yon
Lain: pero friends na ba kayo
[Alain’s friend]: but we don't talk
[Alain’s friend]: may trabaho, tapos lagin nasa church at laging nasa nanay at tatay
[Alain’s friend]: yeah we're friends, he's even praying for me
Lain: so nothing to worry about. don't need to rush it
[Alain’s friend]: angaling nya mag gitara at kumanta
[Alain’s friend]: pero kailan pa sya magkakatime?
Lain: you have years to wait
[Alain’s friend]: pero ganun na sya
[Alain’s friend]: he loves the Lord and really loves the ministyr
[Alain’s friend]: ministry
Lain: that's great. Wait ka lang. No need to rush
[Alain’s friend]: gusto pa yata mag pastor at mag mission
[Alain’s friend]: ayoko yata ng pastor, hehe, lol
_________________________________

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Lain: am back
[Alain’s friend]: k
[Alain’s friend]: 56 problems tong take home
[Alain’s friend]: pambihirang dami
[Alain’s friend]: si [Abcde] tutor ko
[Alain’s friend]: ilang gabi naming ginawa
[Alain’s friend]: antalino...
Lain: ok lang yan. dami ko din work
[Alain’s friend]: sana magka time yung Bible teeacher
[Alain’s friend]: wala rin naman pala kong time, hehe
Lain: wait ka lang. di masarap ang mangga pag hinog sa pilit
[Alain’s friend]: tama
[Alain’s friend]: I'm jus wondering kung magkakatime sya
[Alain’s friend]: can't even check his emails
Lain: maybe in the future. di mo din naman alam kung sya nga
[Alain’s friend]: right
[Alain’s friend]: gusto ko lang sya kaibigan
[Alain’s friend]: i mean talking to him...
Lain: yan din lagi ko sinasabi
[Alain’s friend]: mabait din sya...
[Alain’s friend]: he even sang and played the guitar when i requested him to
[Alain’s friend]: and i guess i can listen to him the whole day
[Alain’s friend]: but I'm not really lookin, i'm happy as I am
[Alain’s friend]: may boyfriend at wala, I'm ok
Lain: good. dapat naman
[Alain’s friend]: natutuwa ako sayo
Lain: bakit?
[Alain’s friend]: i can tell you these things
Lain: that's good
[Alain’s friend]: parang pang babae sa babeng magkaibigan ang usapan natin
Lain: ok lang. ok sa kin yon. no problem
[Alain’s friend]: thanks
Lain: di naman ko gender sensitive pag dating sa ganyan
[Alain’s friend]: pero hindi komportable ang ibang lalake pag ganito
[Alain’s friend]: maiinis yung iba
Lain: well, I have an article I haven't written yet about that
[Alain’s friend]: hehe
Lain: dami kong article na di pa nasusulat
[Alain’s friend]: galing mo magsulat,
[Alain’s friend]: dapat ako din
[Alain’s friend]: pero hindi...
Lain: try mo. ako kasi hilig ko kaya ginagawa ko
[Alain’s friend]: i would want it to be my hilig
[Alain’s friend]: pero hindi
[Alain’s friend]: i should have started long time ago
[Alain’s friend]: kaya ang anak ko, dapat masiapg magbasa
[Alain’s friend]: para hecan write too
[Alain’s friend]: kain muna ko
[Alain’s friend]: nalimutan ko na kumain
Lain: ok. mamya kain na din ako. gutom na din ako
[Alain’s friend]: k